I've been watching some vids of Christians debating Atheists on the existence of God. Christians, of course, offer proof of God's existence; Atheists, of course, offer proof of the non-existence of God.
The winners of the debates were already decided before they even aired. Christians are going to side with the Christians no matter what the Atheists say; Atheists are going to side with the Atheists no matter what the Christians say. So who won? It depends who you talk to.
I personally don't like these debates as they are absolutely pointless and merely add to the futher polarization that we experience in our society. People just choose their sides and hunker down, accusing the other side of being intellectually and morally wanting. It's just slinging arrows over the castle walls.
As a Christian myself, I can tell you that no one, absolutely no one, can be argued into the Kingdom of God, nor should they be. An Atheist doesn't become a Christian simply because he or she lost the debate. Similarily, a Christian doesn't become an Atheist simply because he or she lost the debate. Both sides go back to their drawing boards, lick their wounds, and stock themselves with more ammo for the next battle.
The Bible never tries to prove God's existence. It assumes God's existence and works from there. I see no need at all to prove God's existence to anyone. I would rather talk to people, as a Christian, about things that we already know as we experience them everyday. There are commonalities among us simply because we are humans living on a little blue dot in view of an utterly massive universe. We ought to be looking to build bridges. Perhaps we can seek ways to talk about the same things using different words. Let's take sin, for instance.
In Christianity, sin is defined as incurvatus in se, Latin for "turned in on the self". In a word-- selfishness. Christians and Atheists agree, as far as I can tell, that people are inherently selfish. An Atheist would explain this by saying that we are all equipped with reptilian and mammalian parts of the brain that work solely on instinct to survive. Christians would say something like "our hearts are in the wrong place." Fine. But I think we can both agree that selfishness is a willing rebellion, for whatever reason, against something that we know to be proper and right. I'm willing to go so far as to say that we have a part of the brain, the pre-frontal cortex, that is the seat of conscience. This is a part of the brain that mammals and reptiles don't have. It really doesn't matter how it got that way. We have them. Can we leave it at that? Maybe we can't, I don't know. But here's my point:
We all have a conscience that has the ability to "rope in" our rebellious ways. Christians believe that this conscience is informed by the Spirit of Christ. Atheists say that we have evolved from the instinctual actions of our very ancient ancestors. Alright. But we still have a conscience that can help us overcome our selfish and destructive ways. We were in bondage to sin or to our baser instincts-- two ways of saying the same thing.
The cross shows that the instinct to survive, while very real, doesn't save anyone. If the crucified Christ shows us anything it is that suffering in this world is inevitable for everyone. It's salvific to know this. So, instead of trying to rid ourselves of sin through self-flagellation, we would be better off if we tried to own up to our sinful nature/instinctual drives and accept them as part of our makeup, and seek ways to use them for the common good. This would make salvation from sin more realized to the average everyday person, Christian and Atheist alike.
And I could be wrong, but I see this as a viable alternative to the hunker down and lob bombs mentality. What do you think?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Douglas Hoag
About this blog
Pastor of Trinity Lutheran Church, New Lenox, Illinois.
I'm married with two children.
My MBTI type is E/INFP, in case that means anything to you.
My prayer: Lord, help me finish everything I sta
Most importantly, I believe that the reality and personage of God was uniquely and fully realized in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. No one else comes close.
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for the seizures and/or convulsions you may experience while reading this blog.
Doug Hoag's Profile
Create Your Badge
I'm married with two children.
My MBTI type is E/INFP, in case that means anything to you.
My prayer: Lord, help me finish everything I sta
Most importantly, I believe that the reality and personage of God was uniquely and fully realized in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. No one else comes close.
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for the seizures and/or convulsions you may experience while reading this blog.
Doug Hoag's Profile
Create Your Badge
Followers
Archives
-
▼
2008
(124)
-
▼
July
(20)
- Look! It's Cheesus!!
- An Inside Job
- Hat
- God Is
- A Great Weekend
- Made-Up Jesus
- Hunker Down
- Change Your Life
- Gadzooks!!!!
- Creation and Evolution
- Is This Even Possible?
- Self-Talk
- A Little About Me
- Us and Them
- And Now For Something Completely Different
- Since I'm Not Preaching This Sunday...
- Moonwalkin'
- Letters to Libraries (and beyond)
- Foxhole Faith
- No Scripture
-
▼
July
(20)
3 comments:
Hi,
I stumbled on this post via a Google News Alert; most of it seems reasonable enough, but I'm not sure about this:
"Christians and Atheists agree, as far as I can tell, that people are inherently selfish... [We explain it in different ways but] I think we can both agree that selfishness is a willing rebellion, for whatever reason, against something that we know to be proper and right."
I don't think this follows. An atheist might agree that people are inherently selfish, without necessarily agreeing that this is an inherently bad thing, a rebellion of any kind; one might think it is just the way we naturally are, or started out, and that the higher values in the name of which we try to restrain our selfishness are a later evolutionary development.
Personally I am not an atheist exactly, but not a Christian either, and I can attach no meaning in my own belief system to the concept of "sin."
As I say, I am merely a random visitor to your blog, so feel free to respond or not as you see fit...
I think we should give up this debate as well, but I don't think the answer is to find common grounds of belief with atheists. I think the answer it to befriend unbelievers as Jesus did and serve them like we do any other neighbor.
When we are a friend or neighbor to anyone, lost or otherwise, we (who are in Christ) will naturally share the Gospel of Christ with them and the Gospel of Christ is the power of God to salvation.
Ross
"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, 'Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!'" John 1:29
Thanks for your comments!
Allogenes:
one might think it is just the way we naturally are, or started out, and that the higher values in the name of which we try to restrain our selfishness are a later evolutionary development.
You're correct, and I misrepresented the atheist position. Thanks for stumbling onto my blog and leaving a comment.
Ross,
Right on! Befriending should always be the first thing on the radar screen, and hopefully the friendship builds to a point where things can be spoken about belief and unbelief without fear of straining the friendship.
Post a Comment